Though suspicion is going to fall on insurgent groups based in the northern tribal belt, but the killing is bound to increase dissatisfaction with the regime of Pervez Musharraf, and many suggestions of forming an alliance with national government without military intervention are coming forward in Pakistan. Maybe this incident can help Pakistan in gaining the much needed democracy.

Musharaaf wants everyone to believe he is doing all he can to fight the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Yet, he diverted $5 billion the US gave him to help into his weapons/nuke program against India.

He is a trickster, and he is surely involved directly or indirectly in this assassination. He has succeeded so far with his cunning plans, with his country as well as the west. But now I am sure I civil war is surely going to break up, and he can’t stop it.

Is Pakistan a state? Democracy cries in Pakistan. It was black Thursday for Pakistan. Nawaz Sharif was attacked and Benazir Bhutto assassinated today. Things have gone beyond control of Parvez Musharraf now. He is also on target. Benazir is no more now. In Pakistan, two leaders are left now, one- Nawaz and second – Musharraf. Just think about Pakistan without these two leaders.. Pakistan has become the biggest example of failed state. This is great irony that despite being surrounded by democratically failed states; India has successfully maintained its democratic structure. Northwest Pakistan is almost out of control and the Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir is following the same way. Where are the political leaders in Pakistan? Benazir’s murder is a big blow. No one can save the country now.

There will be a lot of disturbance, but it doesn’t look like an event which may cause Pakistan’s split!

The fate of Pakistan, Musharraf’s dictatorship, and the elections may hang on for a while and the situation may seem destabilized but on the other side, this may actually lead to a more stable Pakistan and even the much awaited democracy!

Reading this made me want to cry, when I first read about Bhutto I thought she was a wonderful woman, very admirable. I know it was coming, yet it disappoints me more than anything else.

Now, it is high time for people of all ages, races and different political affiliations in Pakistan and outside of Pakistan to come out and registered a strong protest against current barbaric military regime.

Times have never been so bad for Pakistan earlier. The assassination of Benazir Bhutto may prove to be the last straw for Pakistani people who already feel oppressed under Musharraf and we may no have no other chance of seeing the light of democracy again until they don’t get rid of the military dictator now. And Musharraf like all dictators will try his best to keep on clutching the crown of ruler. The Pakistani army has already started showing the signs of fatigue and dejection.

The economy of Pakistan is too in doldrums and they have lost the opportunity to reap the benefits of globalization to its neighbors, India and China. The USA won’t continue to feed the Pakistan for long, especially when it is already planning to have talks with Taliban; when Pakistan has so grotesquely failed in curbing the violent-fanaticism; India growing relationship with USA and belittling the importance of Pakistan; and lastly when Pakistan won’t be able to show any developing use of those resources.

The Pakistan has already started dividing internally with growing differences between liberals and fanatics. Kashmir has lost its significance of moot vote-bank issue and the vital internals of Balochistan revolting in Army leaving Pakistan forces to have no option except having a civil war, proves that we all are going to see major changes in geo-politics of South-East Asia very soon.

@bilal_pk

All I can say to your reply is ...
Poor woman. Pakistan is a horrible place to live.

It’s terribly shocking; however, to talk about breakup at this moment would be far fetched. That’s the way things go on when a majority of people of a country are part of the so-called ‘jihad against peace and democracy’, otherwise there is no way military could have an upper hand in running the country for so long.

This is what she said - ”The extremists need dictatorship to flourish, and dictatorship needs the extremists as a pre-text to continue in place.” Here is the link.

Now, how can one expect her to take her pie amidst extremists? This was imminent, but there will be no breakup for sure, the doomed nation is used to bloodbath.

@arjunm

Well said

The Pakistan has already started dividing internally with growing differences between liberals and fanatics.

Ask yourself who would benefit most from this. Its Musharraaf, and his supporters that did this, they also tried to get her last time too. Pakistan is a mess, with a dictator who wont go and dozens of nuclear weapons in his hands.

The dictator has to go now.

I am feeling sad for Bilal who is asking the ’kids’ to wake up... If people from Pakistan ( I think this guy is from Pakistan) have no problem with Benazir’s assassination, why should we feel sorry for her. We Indians should remember that just before her assassination, she was delivering anti-Indian speech at Rawalpindi. Benazir is history and next in the line are Nawaz Sharif and Parvez Musharraf (we can guess it by reading modern history books of Pakistan).

Hey of course breakup is no going to happen tomorrow or in the next week, but all the repercussions from today’s incident will lead to that.

The Extremist are those monster which eat the one who raised them, and that is what is going to happen in Pakistan. Do you think Osama bin Laden will miss to capitalize this opportunity?

[@ arjunm - ...all the repercussions from today’s incident will lead to that.]

Never - to break a glass you need a hammer, however here, all are hammers and all are locked together - Pakistanis melted all the glass long back - a powerful extremist can always rout an effective moderate, doesn’t matter how strong he is - and Musharraf is still having the keys of the iron mine making all these hammers, do you really think he’ll not eat the sumptuous meal he’s been cooking for so many years - it’s time for dinner...

@vikas, taking your examples:

You yourself have said that Pakistan has already melted all the glass, then whether Musharraf is having keys to all hammers or not is of no relevance.

Hey please don’t think that Musharraf still controls the Pakistan as he used to do 3 years back, he himself gave away the control to extremist thinking that they will always be loyal to him. And please don’t underestimate the fanatics, just reminding : the organisation having the most PHD’s, the pentagon, supported CIA in creating the monster Osama bin Laden, and no intelligence agency realised when he had became such a danger to them.

I really wish that time proves me wrong, but the available facts don’t.

When was Pakistan together to break up now...? Assasinations are common there. There has always been a wicked confrontation between the state instrumentalities there, a confrontation between different tribal groups, a violent fight between political parties, Islamic terrorism, the wrongly intepreted Jihad etc. One would argue that all this is there in India too, but let me tell you, here we atleast follow some democratic means.....

I am sad for the people of Pakistan. 60 years since an ill-minded Britain separated the countries playing to the tunes of Jinnah, top assasinations continue to happen regularly. Nothing is going to change there. Today’s children will remember blood for their life. Pakistan will continue to remain this way.

Well, Pakistan, supposedly a democratic country had a spark of hope to retrieve democracy in the country. Now that one hope is shattered, people don’t have a choice but to turn towards the remotest hope - Nawaz Shariff. Given that, Pakistan can afford to only see a shimmering light too far to even predict how long it would take to reach there. With Musharaff around, with no unprejudiced, fair elections held the chances of uprooting dictatorship is almost nil. No where in history have we witnessed a triumphant government under a dictatorship. Thats just enough to say its a sure sign of Pakistan breaking up.
I’ve always admired Benzir Bhutto’s confidence and strength. But today, I’m not sad for her or her family. But the whole scenario gives a threatening picture of whats happening to humanity - thats what gives me shivers. Has politics, religion (directly or indirectly) become more important and valuable than love and life? What are we heading towards?

If somebody wonders what will happen to Mush.........here is the answer.

He will face a similiar fate too.

Yes, the signs couldn’t have been clearer or say more ominous. The desperate need of the hour for Pakistan was a leader, a pan-Pakistani leader to hold the country together through democratic institutions. Benazir Bhutto might not have been equally popular all throughout the country, and certainly not in the extremist-controlled Tribal Areas, but she could do the following:

A) Bring Pakistan as close as possible towards true democracy.

B) Keep the Army at bay from politics and make it a professional entity. General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is widely seen as a non-political soldier who was an aide to a democratically elected former prime minister Nawaz Sharif. Should a democratically elected popular leader had become the prime minister of the country, Kayani would have supported him/her more than a ’self-appointed’ president in Musharraf.

C) Benazir Bhutto was a friend of India. The Kashmir problem had the best chance of being ’solved’ had she became the prime minister. With a professional army in place, the guns would have been trained on to the militants and terrorists.

D) With Benazir gone now, and with President Musharraf and the Pakistani Army being suspiciously looked upon behind her assassination, Pakistan is going to become more and more unstable. Without a popular leader to run the country now, there would be civil disobedience. And, should Nawaz Sharif fail to convince people outside his state - Punjab, without a pan-Pakistani leader, the country will be void of a common leader to be pacified.

E) The generally loathed Islamists will neither side with democratic institutions neither the military. Suicide bombings and terrorism will only rise. Then the military will break down thus giving rise to splinter ‘nationalistic/regionalistic groups armed to the teeth.

At best, it will be a peaceful mutual division with the exception of the terrorists and the militia who wouldn’t accept this way or that way, and at worst there would be a Yugoslavia-like bloody civil war and fragmentation.

With news trickling in, its obviously anarchy in Pakistan. Benazir advocated democracy till she was exiled.
Now, there are people who have been flustered by the military rule under General Musharraf.
Now, with this assassination, there is one thing. Pakistan will break into fractions- the pro Benazir supporters and the military rule supporters.
A civil war is what we are looking at now.
No one knows what will happen, but the situation is definitely grim.
Pakistan may not break, since this is not the 1st time that such things have happened in Pakistan. But, there will be political chaos for sometime.

Every leader has its own lifespan. He never exists for a lifetime. This is part of the never-ending struggle to gain democracy and not a break-up for Pakistan.

If Pakistanis will only realize that real democracy rests in their hands, there will truly be a new leader that they can uphold as their representative in channeling their nation’s concerns to the world. No one can do that except themselves.

A threat from Iran will always be a threat. But Pakistan is never powerless. Pakistanis need to be vigilant in protecting their rights and freedoms.

Death in all forms is a natural occurrence. All people die. It just so happens that Benazir is a prominent figure and this will be looked at all political implications.

Be it political or not, her mode of death was her destiny and so be it. We have to accept that.

Change is permanent and everything that happens to us is designed and a result of our own actions.

Good or bad, we need to learn from our mistakes and be more critical of our actions. In times like these, negative thoughts may lead to war. Is it the only way to end such a turmoil?

Benazir’s assassination is a recent death among all the other world leaders who have died and fought toward democracy.

Cases of leaders being killed will remain if people will not learn from the mistakes of historical events.

Treat Benazir’s death as a saving grace of starting anew and a sacrifice to make Pakistanis look for global change for the good of their country.

Maynard Delfin
Manila, Philippines

A reckoning setback for democracy and for the rights of women in the province…stability is an unachievable dream in Pak.

Surely a jolt to Pakistan, but a nation doesn’t depend on the destiny of one individual. No doubt, Bhutto left inviolable gap to bridge in the Pak politics. But same happened twice in India when Indira and Rajeev Gandhi were killed when they were PM, whereas Bhutto was not at the moment. And this is best be lined up as the result of some bad maneuverings of the past that perhaps many have to pay yet and those who set fire could even not escape its wrath. Can there be better prove than this?

Nothing new and out of the world! Just another day and another episode in Pakistan. People of Pakistan have learned to live up amid such explosive incidents. Considering the history of the nation since it divided from India and become a separate nation, Pakistan has struggled to put reign on extremists, which has further resulted in terrorism, and establish democracy.

Some generous talks now.

Situation in Pakistan is grim, but to talk about the breakup of a country is too early a perception. Bhutto, no doubt, was the pillar of Pakistani politics, but still there are many who can rule the country (to harmony is another issue). Though, an uphill task and a hard nut to crack but not wholly unattainable. At the moment rather making the hue and cry for the Pakistan breakup, the need of the hour is to look for the right choice, the able leader (of course, other than dual masked Musharraf) who can steer the country out of the quagmire.

Yea, it seems to be the moment that characterises not just Benazir’s demise but that of the demise of the cult of democracy that was just starting to resurrect itself bit by bit in Pakistan? I dont know why this has to happen all the time? The Pakistani’s had been hearing the devil’s death knell ringing for a long long time now and i think with Benazir’s assassination the last ingredient left for a dream called democracy is buried too. God save the Pakistani’s who have nothing left to glue them together, they will blistter into fractions characterised by opposing political views which will lead to further degenarationg of the nation as such...

Benazir Bhutto’s death is solemn and a tragic loss of role model for all political activists around the world. She will always be remembered as the first female Prime Minister in the Muslim world.

Even after her glorious reputation some points remain…

The return of Bhutto felt as if the doors are opened for other politicians to return with no fear of intimidation but as soon as she entered the country she signed her death certificate by signing a deal with her enemy. Clearly the deal was to convince the Pakistanis that she is there for welfare after bargaining with a leader who has a low rating nationally- politically and diplomatically a blunder. Breakup of Pakistan was imminent from there only.

Of course! It would lead to an inevitable chaos in the Pakistan politics, as the haystack of disgruntlement – mounting up for the last few years – has caught the spark finally after this gory incident.

Well, assassination of a leading political figure in the sub-continent is not a new trend. We have seen it happening before in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. This is a region where various ethnic grievances have time and again given rise to provincial conflicts. But over the years all our nations in South Asia have shown tremendous resilience to face up to such conflicts with immense sacrifices of their people and leaders. Ofcourse, the ’murder’, of Ms.Bhutto would be a bitter pill to swallow for the Pakistani people but I am sure they have the mental strength in overcoming this inconsolable grief and take forward the late Benazir Bhutto’s tireless and fearless democratic process for the betterment of her proud nation’s future and by doing so provide a strong signal to the murderers that such cowardly acts would never divide a nation.

@ sunit_83

Benazir Bhutto’s tireless and fearless democratic process for the betterment of her proud nation’s future and by doing so provide a strong signal to the murderers that such cowardly acts would never divide a nation.

very well said

The messenger has been silenced but the not the message.....I have the line form the song ’where have all the flowers gone’ running through my head........When will they ever learn..? Apparently not with this action…apparently not today.

yet another martyr nothing to with Pak’s disintegration but will Musharraf still hold elections soon as he promised? I can’t help but wonder if hopes for Democracy in Pakistan died with her.

i was waiting for someone to blame america... you ppl disappointed me.

Terrible times in Pakistan to come, although it makes hardly any difference in the remote and lawless areas where Taliban and alqaeda are in business...they are after both Mush-Bush anyways.

A very interesting take by one of the Instablogs’ CJ. Who killed Benazir Bhutto ?

Naturally, the needle of suspicion now rests on President Musharraf and her opponents. But it is highly unlikely that Musharraf had orchestrated the murder. At this point of time, Benazir’s death would only make public opinion stronger against him.

Let Bhutto Benazir’s death be a way to awaken Pakistan toward real democracy.

Pakistanis need to work as a whole for their country. They should strive for peace and justice and never ”revenge” through violent acts in the streets.

May Benazir’s death be a starting point of fixing what has lost and what needs to be done in the future. Enough is enough for Musharraf’s dictatorship.

It is time to move on toward something progressive and not fearing a small number of people creating havoc to Pakistan.

Viva to new Pakistan! Let 2008 be the start of your country’s glorious days.

Maynard Delfin
Manila, Philippines

no,the aemy is still with musharaff and with support of u.s he is still a force to reckon with

maynard_delfin (site:maynard_delfin.insta..)

Let Bhutto Benazir’s death be a way to awaken Pakistan toward real democracy

hey this is not the first time that this kinda incident took place in Pak...if the killing or death of any political leader could pave the way for real democracy then it would have been happened long before. this incident is not the starting point of fixing what has lost and what needs to be done in the future but this is pointing towards the chaos and more violence in the near future.

being optimistic sounds good but you need to focus on the point - TIP (this is Pakistan) we are talking abt.

mysideoflife

no,the army is still with musharaff and with support of u.s he is still a force to reckon with

There are elements within his administration who have helped militants secure safe havens in Pakistan with a view of destabilising Afghanistan but now when things are getting out of his hand, his well trusted army generals can also make him meet his fate like all other Generals of this ill-fated country.

@ Ankit

A very interesting take by one of the Instablogs’ CJ. Who killed Benazir Bhutto?

it is highly unlikely that Musharraf had orchestrated the murder. At this point of time, Benazir’s death would only make public opinion stronger against him.

however,
1) it is likely to be blamed on Musharraf as he stands to gain by her death.
2) it is likely that emergency will be re-imposed and elections be delayed or terminated altogether.

and sorry for cross-posting the comment

Power gradually slipping out of Musharraf’s hand. The present situation in Pakistan is different than his successors ever had and in the past neither the chaos not the scenario was that much intricate. Now the focal point of the problem is the nuclear arsenal that Musharraf’s predecessors were not burdened with. But now its more a war for the possession of the nuclear warheads that these Jihadis would like to threaten the great guns of the world with... and that is something that makes the nights sleepless to its western cronies.

As the chaos is spilling over and civil war like situation is coming to fore, perhaps with that the country is heading for the debacle and Musharraf should also look for some safe corner for himself. whether Musharraf knows about the incident or not and irrespective of the perception that he knowingly avoided it for political gains but who knows tomorrow it’s he and perhaps others will know about that but will let it happen because it’ll serve the interests of many and above all of nation. But poor chap can’t do anything in any condition because he forgot that politics is a forbidden fruit for Army... a fruit that expelled Adam from heaven and for musharraf the condition will unlikely to change but it remains to be seen that how early will he lead the nation for total debacle?

Just a happening and people started talking and prophesying hell out of it… are you crazy? Pakistan’s army is neither dead not it’s lame to protect its nation and fools started saying something for the sake of saying. Well doooooooooon’t forget if ifs and ans are pots and pans there would be no tinkers I question who you are to foretell the future of Pakistan? I don’t see anything like that!

Bhutto’s death clearly indicates the lack of law and order in Pakistan. Pakistan has disgruntled politicians, hardliners or terrorists, but they are not strong enough to break Pakistan. Ofcourse there are areas which do not obey the writ of Islamabad, but were these to rebel can they hold against Pakistani military? A breakup of Pakistan is not imminent, the only thing imminent is a complete breakdown of law and that of democracy (both of these either way don’t have much of a presence there).

well I cannot give a yes or no answer...what matters to me is that the Pakistani terrorists will hate India either way...break or no break up Indian secularism is detested by fundamentalists...as an Indian I am concerned that Arab mercenaries are now settled in Pakistan permanently.

well I cannot give a yes or no answer...what matters to me is that the Pakistani terrorists will hate India either way...break or no break up Indian secularism is detested by fundamentalists...as an Indian I am concerned that Arab mercenaries are now settled in Pakistan permanently. and theoretical discussions are good in the classroom, but while we fight here, the terrorists are gleefully waiting to kill us. And I repeat whether Pakistan breaks up is immaterial, they hate us and in the future will hate us. Incidentally, Mrs. Bhutto was not too fond of India. God rest her soul...

quote by rhapsodysinger
”I repeat whether Pakistan breaks up is immaterial, they hate us and in the future will hate us. ”

I don`t necessarily agree with you on this. What people of Pakistan think is very much different from what their media or politician says. The common of Pakistan is very similar to a common of India.

I have met many people from Pakistan, and found them share same values like we do. Culturally we are very close to them. You can ask any of your friends living in US or UK, how much they are close to their friends from Pakistan and Bangladesh then with other ethnics.

Breaking of Pakistan is not going to be very good for India. Assassination of high political leaders is not very unknown to both neighbors. When Indira Gandhi was shot, India has seen the bloodiest riots, I just hope similar fate is NOT awaiting Pakistan.

I just hope...

@Ankit

I am from Pakistan, Ankit and I whole-heartedly agree with you. Pakistan is surely facing some tough times, very tough times indeed.

We have seen similar gruesome murders in past as well, but its time my country men should and will rise and we will build a powerful, peaceful country.

@m_griffiths
Pakistan is not a horrible but the most beautiful place to live on the Earth. And for every one, his country is the most beautiful place to live, just like Pakistan is for me.

According to you when Kennedy was murdered, that surely had made US the most horrible place?

Get a life man.


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This is the thing I love about Instablogs, different views, entirely opposing views rather than bullshit by politicians. This is the new media; bring the voice of the common man, ordinary citizen. Enough of Burkha Dutt debating with Farookh Abdullah and asking advice from Shahrukh, Aamir Khan and other Khans on what should people of Pakistan do now. Enough.

I have talked to many of my Pakistani friends here in Australia and everyone is shocked. Pakistan now has no choice but to unite and come strong in these fragile times. For the time being, my advice is let Musharaff be in power. Those who consider Musharaff a cruel dictator, let me tell you I haven`t seen a more venerable man than him today. Don`t be surprised if he decides to flee the country.

Neither his allies trust him, nor do his own countrymen. He has no place to go, with many accusing him of the murder.

I express heartfelt sorrow to her family and her supporters and to the people of Pakistan. Unfortunate Bhutto family who have seen so many of these killings.

1979: Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was executed by the General Zia-ul-Haq in Rawalpindi.

1985: Shahnawaz Bhutto committed suicide in France.

1998: Murtaza Bhutto was murdered in public rally in Karachi.

2007: Now Benazir Bhutto is assassinated.

Who said Benazir was assassinated? Pakistani government has claimed in a press conference that a lever in the sunroof of her car, not the bullets or splinters, killed Benazir. One thing has been very much clear that even Bush can’t control Musharraf now....

No,
I don’t think so because this is not the first time that a powerful national leader has been murdered in Pakistan. This assassination too will be consumed in the political and religious frenzy in a short while.

Pakistan will never change. Since its independence blood shed has always been its part. Bhutto’s assasination will certainly not place Musharraf in the line of fire. He still controls the army and he is still powerful enough to exercise control over the agitating public to a large extent.

May be it is a curse that Pakistan cannot have democratic regime continuously. In the wake of this assasination, democracy might bloom in Pakistan and Musharraf could be dethroned. Going by the Pakistan’s political history and traditon, one cannot rule out the possibility of a military ruler taking over again..

So, things will not change in Pakistan... atleast in the near future.

I’m not sure they will or won’t and I do not see much good coming from it anyway towards us. I mean India is so incompetent (”peace loving” in the language of our politicians) that we will wait and watch while both the al qaeda and the US which is half way across the planet, share the spoils. As far as Bhutto goes, neither was her reign very kind to India nor was her last public speech. It is actually funny that so many people think that a person who has not been in Pakistan for so long and was back barely a month back is actually such an important character in the scheme of things. Sure, she had political power but she was no savior of anyone.

yes, death is a sad thing, but those who live by the sword die by it. A real fighter never quits and runs away from his country and comes back years later through a back door opened by both political needs and international pressure. Benazir was just an opportunist who had actually no interest in anything beyond power. She is a product so similar to the ’Dynasty Politics’ that are so dominant in India. Her death is a loss to absolutely nothing except the fact that Pakistan will burn for a month or so. Innocents will be killed for no reason, media will make merry, channels will fight for TRP, conspiracy theories will float and then things will move on when the next big story hits us. So will Pakistan, so don’t worry too much. Of course so i believe but to each his own

Yes, the state of affairs of Pakistan can be affirmed from the fact that it is now widely publicized and made to believe that Ms Bhutto was not assassinated but died accidentally in an assassination attempt, or say a ’random regulation bombing’ that is commonplace in Pakistan by hitting her head on the sun roof of her vehicle. (Thanks Pratyush for your pre-emptive comment before mine)

Now, after seeing the reaction from Pakistan public, the country seems to be the ’most’ ripe for a truly democratic regime than ever before. The country seems to be united.

Pakistanis are shaken to the core after this ’assassination’ than they are being terrorized. We may all misjudge the situation.

My erstwhile militant brother Shoukat756 is emotional and his statements being emotive about Pakistan’s unity and unshakablility, let alone Pakistan’s disintegration. We all here at Pakistan’s Hindustan and our Bharat Janmabhumi think and wish the same.

My wish and my heat’s desire is that Pakistan comes out stronger than ever before and crushes all sorts of religious radicalism and extremism so that we live as sisters in bed together.

This is the time for Musharraff to be scared, not the aam Pakistani bhai.

If he doesn’t mend his ways soon and resign, the following 3 is his only fate as destined by Param Pitamah Vasudeva, or what he calls his Allah:

a) Downfall following popular rising against him leading to his execution like Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania,

b) Dignified resignation and subsequent peaceful death like Lucius Cornelius Sulla, the last dictator of Rome (c. 138 BC – 78 BC) [forgive my addictive inclination to history],

c) An Idi Amin type of exile in comfort,

d) (Worst case scenario), Samuel Doe of Liberia or (better case) Ferdinand Marcos of Philippines like ending.

Those are futuristic predictions, but most likely in the event Pakistani population doesn’t show the ’strength of their fighting character’.

Until then, I shall remain on the left side of this particular debate, but wouldn’t hesitate to eat crow even if it takes 1000 yrs to see some morning light.

Thank you friends.

@ Ankit on the ’right side’ ,on this

I can’t agree with you more because of my personal experiences as a teenager student in Western Australia in the mid-90s. A Bangladeshi , a Pakistani and and Egyptian with a dubious Nigerian were my flatmates. I identified them more with myself then the Aussies or even the people of the Chinese origin at about 1 hr from Perth in a town called Northam.

You are absolutely right, and I agree fully with you.

However, having said that, Ankit, the so-called hatred between us is so deep-rooted that we can witness the evidences whenever there is a cricket match between the two sister nations either in AMU boys hostel or in Ghousia Engineering College in Bangalore. I was in the later visiting a friend when India and Pakistan played the finals of the Asia Cup where Saurav Ganguly scored 120 odd runs and India chased a then-world record target or 320+. Same scenes are repeated in Metiabruz in the dock areas of Kolkata, the Khajpura area of Patna, Alam Baug in Lucknow, Godhra in Gujarat, City Market/Kalasipalya of Bangalore, Goalpara in Assam or anywhere there are ’minority ghettos’.

This is a fact and this needs to be addressed. This is happening before the days of al-Qaida and fundamentalist activities. Now tell me, how on earth we solve this problem?

Should we all meet outside the Subcontinent to live as brothers.

Your point well taken, with a pinch of salt of course.

well @ ankit & Jonty

Ur personal experiences notwithstanding, you have to understand that ordinary peaceable Pakistanis do not have a say in the running in of their country. the terrorists are in power. Period. So all your bonhomie will fall to deaf ears. Poor Pakistan...

Since when have the nation-states have become so fragile as to depend upon the existence of one individual. Leaders have been killed before and will be killed in future too. That’s the beauty of political systems. They are aimed at survival regardless of the individuals that make them up. Benazir’s death will make a transition to normalcy difficult and protracted one, but breakup, that’s just stretching things too far.

The only thing that threatens stability in Pakistan is the ugly head of hard-core Islamist forces. Unfortunately the alternative that is presented to the people isn’t too attractive in form of Musharraff and his make believe liberalism (a pathetic excuse for towing Bush’s imperialist agenda).

If somehow the Islamic forces can be kept at bay and civil war avoided, there’s still hope for Pakistan to function as a nation with democracy. Things are bleak but there’s light at the end of the tunnel still. Perhaps in the form of army back at the top.

AND Monsieur rhapsodysinger Internet could do without people spreading around conspiracy theories without any proof whatsoever. Your story is completely devoid of any base or knowledge. Think twice before pointing figures onto others without any substance in your arguments.

@gagan

”If somehow the Islamic forces can be kept at bay and civil war avoided, there’s still hope for Pakistan to function as a nation with democracy. Things are bleak but there’s light at the end of the tunnel still. Perhaps in the form of army back at the top.”

mind you gagan, tobysinclair has written a very good line if ifs and ans are pots and pans there would be no tinkers isn’t it? ifs and buts have no existence but the reality is Pakistan is in dire crises wherefrom its breakup is imminent for Islamic forces are gripping Pakistan hard and that’s the reality and better to accept than remain in daydreaming while thinking and contemplating ifs and buts, what say?

If I could just comment to Mr. Attitude’s view....

Well, you are talking about Benazir not having been and wouldn’t have been a good leader but Pakistan is in a ”Beggars can’t be choosers” state. Pakistan needs to remanifest democracy - bring back the slightest sign of democracy.

Its not that Benazir was the only hope. But she was one of them. If Benazir is called an opportunist, so is Nawaz Sharif, in which case, neither of their death would be a loss to Pakistan. Then who is the hope for Pakistan’s democracy? Imran Khan? Is he as experienced and strong as the other two?

Every single life is precious. Her assasination has lead to loss of so many innocent people across the country. Are you saying it isn’t loss enough to be called ”loss”?

@gagan
You have correctly said that nation-state don’t depend upon one person, but on the people. But killing of Benazir Bhutto is going to fuel the discontent which has been rising since the Emergency was imposed. Liberals believe that government is not doing anything substantial to curb the growing fanatics, fanatics think that Musharraf has sold the country to USA.

Army has already lost the Balochistan area and its precious few members who has deserted the army has left a wide intelligence gap which most probably would prove to be fatal.
Al qaeda, who is revered by many Pakistanis would try to gain more followers in this time of trouble.

In all this Musharraf will try his level best to maintain the status quo as otherwise his death is guranteed. He will try to sell to USA again his theory that after him Islamist would take over the Pakistan, which would further anger most of the Pakistan ensuing more chances of seeing another form of Taliban.

Of course break up is not going to happen next week, but the seeds have been already sowed. The only question is when will they ripe.

No, Benazir’s death is in no way going to cause the disappearance of Pakistan. Benazir is certainly a great leader and Pakistan is sure to feel her absence. But no leader is bigger than the country and leaders come and go but nation survives. Benazir is not a leader having greater stature than Liaqat Ali or Zulifikar Bhutto. The question of disintegration of Pakistan first came to fore in 1950s, but instead it made the nation stronger with military took over. Benazir was away from Pakistan for 8 years and the country went on as usual. There is not a single evidence in the world post World War II where the death of a leader caused the disintegration of the nation. If there will be disintegration of Pakistan, then it would be because of policies of the government and too much foreign interference. Pakistan is sure to exist, and at best it will dismember but not disintegrate.

@shruti g...
I agree with u totally, believe it or not I have not seen tv for over 3 years.
@gagan
have u been to Pakistan recntly? e b4 u pooh pooh me understand that India did not ask Pakistan to leave, Pakistan chose to leave. & are u aware that a terrorist lodged at Coimbatore wants to make a Caliphate out of India. See A past Outlook...since am in train now can,t gv exact reference. Check the archives there...
R u aware there r people called sociopaths & clinical psychiatrists maintain they just do not have a conscience. They only have agendas. The present Pakistani leadership is such. About 6 yrs ago as part of my professional training I met a sociopath. All he said , even behind bars, is thatwhen he is released he will blast Any and every govt. Instn out.
do u know how it feels to know that u may be blown off. Right now my train is passing thru Maoist heartland, do u know the fear? I have two separate professions apart from freelancing. The second one puts me face to face with evil and i am scared for India...adios

@ AAdil

I have read thousands if not lakhs, of comments this year. And without any doubt you deserve to be rewarded with the funniest comment of 2007 title.

I am still laughing.

Sonia Gandhi killed Benazir, this is priceless humor.

@aadil

Preposterous though your conspiracy theory is, you have managed to give some logic behind it to make it look like a genuinely debatable viewpoint. However, your intellectuality (which, I know you try to show the world) deserts you whenever you raise points like - ’Indians are infamous for female foeticide , and also for burning brides who do not bring enough dowry. Naturally, they are jealous of progress made by Pakistani women in Politics, Education and Medical fields’ and, ’...thus inviting a widows venom’. Of course, this one is a classic that takes the cake - ’Widow Sonia needed something to cheer up, after being ignored by world media’.

In writing such a comment, you have ensured that you become a ironic hero by being the villain and grab peoples’ eyeballs here to follow you to read whatever you are planning to dish out on your blog that you seemed to have started today with this post making use of this active platform.

This shows that you are clever. Though you might acknowledge that there are clever people than you in the world, you decided to take the chance that as most of them would choose to ignore your comment or your views.

The post in your blog and the comment are diametrically opposite in depth and understanding. However, one thing is there for sure. You are a militant, the kind of net savvy, well educated ones like Md. Atta and co.

Your profiles says you had been to the USA. It is highly realistic to imagine that since you dared putting your image in your profile and name (that I believe are real), you have kissed the US goodbye forever as a future visa won’t be coming your way.

That makes me curious to know more about your background. Of course Musharraf and Bush would like to run a check on your prior data. I won’t be surprised though if you are indeed one of those urban sleeper cells of terror.

@aadil:
Dear brother, this is refutation of the points raised by you and also a hint to you that we the Indians hope friendly behaviour from PAKISTANIS.
1. Can you call Musharraf civilian? He is so scared of the people that he converted the Army House as Presidential House. Come to India and witness what a civilian President means. Your army is the killer of your prime ministers and you call them civilians because they are without uniforms. You call Bhuto charismatic. No doubt she was. But what her charisma did for common Pakistanis—may be Swiss accounts, a tainted husband, $30million mansion in London—which cost billions to Pakistan. Tell me any development work she has done and Pakistan got praise for it internationally. You have nothing but to cite the creation of the Taliban and the terrorism in Kashmir that took more lives than she saved.
2. We always accepted Pakistan as a nation [Shimla Treaty, Lahore Declaration, Indus Treaty and many more are facts]. We refused to sign SEATO and CENTO to keep the US away from Asia. But your generals beginning from 1948 till date behave as the US stooges. We always want a stable Pakistan so that we can talk on Kashmir. But we are not sure who to talk as your army chiefs and prime ministers hold contradictory views. One was welcoming the peace process and the other was planning war on Kashmir. This has made you to lose credibility at international level. Beginning from Operation Gibralitor to Kargil, India defeated Pakistan, but never destroyed it. In 1971, we pardoned your 90,000 war prisnores. Can you guess what would have been the situation had we handed over those soldiers to Bangladesh then?
3. We do agree that our women are not so advanced, but the Mukhtar Mai incident is enough to show you that we are still ahead. Please remember Benazir herself wrote in her biography that the Pakistani opposition called for a strike against the Prime Minister Bhutto becoming pregnant. How come you deny the basic rights of a women? But look in India what position we have given to Sonia Gandhi though she is from Italy. When Sonia is pardoning Rajiv’s killers on humanitarian ground why she would not have pardoned Bhutto for her comments.
4. Please donot blame India every time for your own fault. Kashmir runs in our bonemarrow and people there are safer than people in NWFP, Wazirstan, Bajaur, Swat and Baluchistan.

5. You talked about Khuswant Singh. Just tell me how many of your writers have that kind of freedom of expression.

@ aadil
Here is another conspiracy theory for you...
How about saying you killed Bhutto and you are so tense that the world will find out and so are anxious to shove it on a lady who can barely control her own party. Sounds good, doesn’t it?

Ok, maybe with that i have proved that i can stoop down to any level and indulge in a little banter with even a guy like you. Anyway Jonty said in his comment that you been to US. Now tell me the truth; its for rehab, is it not? Come on now, don’t hide it. We know. Sadly though, it seems those US folks have ripped you off again by sending you back home without giving finishing their job. Either that or they are providing internet access in those crazy wards these days.

Anyway take care buddy. its not like i care but... Hope you get well soon. Talk to you when you are out and when those shots of Vodka wear off. Till then... Why don’t you try investigating the UFOs... i heard it is a hot market :-)

@aadil
Ha..Ha..what a joke!! Hey Mr. Super Imaginative, thanks for this hilarious comment of yours,seems you have one fertile brain capable of sprouting out herbs that no one else on earth or atleast this part of the world can even think off. Tell me one thing, did you come up with this enlightening commandment-like theory of your’s emerging out of some divine dream? What on earth made you think this way? God knows, anyways once again thanks for making us laugh, laugh enough to make our bones shake and muscles fall apart...

@ aadil...

“There is nothing so pathetic as a bore who claims attention - and gets it”

@aadil..

I think you had a very bad dream and when you woke up, Benazir was dead........Your immediate response was to find the criminal on the other side of the border.

Oh..! I realize that you belong to that species of organisms that simple live in Pakistan with brains working against India for no reason.

A passionate Pakistani himself will give you a treatment...no need of a Bush.

@ For all who are unable to understand what aadil wrote in Urdu.

سدا نہ باغ وِچ بُلبُل بولے سدا نہ رہن بہاراں
دشمن مرے تے خوشی نہ کريئے سجناں وی ٹُر جانا

Written in Roman script it goes like something like this:

sada na bagh vich bulbul bolay sada na bagh baharan
dushman mary tay khoushi na karyi sajna whe tur jana

He has pervertedly twisted a couplet from one of Muhammad Bakhsh’s beautiful poems. The original two lines are:

sada na baghay bulbul bolay, sada na bagh baharan
sada na husn jawani qayam, sada na suhbut-e-yaraan

This guy reads Amrita Pritam and Khushwant Singh. Well both are of Punjabi origin with roots in what is now Pakistan. Naturally, they have written much about the land that we have not had the chance to see along with first hand experiences. However, misquoting or quoting out of context what both writers might have written is absolutely rubbish.

Just imagine what will happen if we start quoting what some prophet might have said in a religious book followed by billions out of context. In one case at least, an entire religion can be termed as Enemy No. 1 for the rest of the world that doesn’t follow it.

Jehadis with mindsets like Aadil are teaching and preaching to the world hatred quoting Prophet Muhammad out of context from the Quran. Thus, we see the world getting more and more wary of Islam.

Therefore, before you write nonsense like this, think twice Aadil. You are doing more damage to your cause by such remarks.

@Aadil..
Hey dear bro..... Just one little favour from you. Would you please not quote that to someone out of Asia? Since, you are an Asian as much as we are, we swear we are by your side and would do everything possible to cover up your insanity.

@Ujjawal aren’t you a smug smart-cookie? Would you rather have me join forces on the other side of this debate? I’m not usually an optimist but I have my reasons to believe that countries simply do not crumble with the demise of any particular individual, no matter of what stature. After all that is the whole point of having a nation.

And as far as as the remark about conditions on which existence of democracy, and indeed Pakistan itself, are dependent, I stand by that too. The circumstances are complex and interwoven very delicately. So the functioning of administrative and political machinery becomes dependent upon several things.

Radical Islamists must not be allowed to hijack the power, that would be spell doom for Pakistan more than anything else. PERIOD.

Pakistan will not break up in the near future. The army will act as a glue; atleast as long as Gen. Kiyani (who is of the Musharraf-mould) is at the helm of the institution. But if an Islamist-sympathiser general grabs control of the military, God help Pakistan!

@ I am on this side to counter the clown called adil...
now freak, I wan to just mention that indeed we in india have twisted people who commit female foeticide whereas in your country and such likes normal people beat women to pulp and then violate them. You are so unhappy and cowardly that you whip your women, in in your master nation , Saudi Arabia you whip the rape victim rather than the rapists...in spiteof your poetry you are just an arm chair coward. I am against calling people names here, but I think you are the type of creature i detest...while others find you boring I find you dangerous, for people like you finally tun into zealots. after all, fools are the most dangerous.

another thing , chauvinist, these other people here they are decent, like jonty, gagan,manard, delfin m, ankit & khushi and attitude. they are trying to reason with you...thinking that you may respond to reason...ur type responds only to third degree...not reason...Happy new year to all here but not to you, I pray to God that you have a bad time ahead. ( U know another trick such s you have...u’ll take my comments to show how bad indians are but all the while ur denizens are killing us; online you are so polite) Your type killed Benazir...
Incidentally, freak, who has given you the mandate to interpret the Holy Quran? Has it not come from Allah,Most High? He does not want freaks like you, you know the best anser for you is come out in the open and declare that you are a terrorist and then we shall see...rot in hell, scum
sorry others, u r good people so will be shocked at my outbursts and call me ranting, I went to the freak’s blog and found him to be perverted...never mind me, I rant...
bye and happy new year to all except the freak

I HAVE TO HIDE BECASUE FREAKS LIKE YOU ARE UNAFRAID TO HIDE...AND YOU ARE IN THE OPEN IN A TERRORIST NATION AND WOULD DARE NOT SHOW YOUR HIDEOUS FACE IN PUBLIC IN iNDIA OR CIVILISED NATIONS